chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet

If you choose not to have the scan you can still have all other parts of your routine antenatal care. And thank God I did. Can you remember that minute. He felt doing more blood tests would only cause me more discomfort and false hope. So I took the test and jumped in the shower. 15/02/2014 08:02. That was an extremely difficult day. Parents get a chance to emotionally adapt to news and plan. Some say this estimate is really below the reality, and the out-of-pocket average costs are higher. All women are offered a dating scan, and an 18- 20 week fetal anomaly ultrasound scan, in line with NICE and UK National Screening Committee recommendations. And the doctor - because it was a doctor rather then just the, a sonographer or whatever the correct term is - was scanning my wife, and she hovered over the heart of the baby and said, 'Oh there's the heart, we'll come back to that'. So we had to go in and out a couple of times, and we were just waiting around for ages and ages. The screen may be directly facing them or at an angle. I endured 12 hours of medication and in the early hours February 7, 56 days after my first scan (at nearly 18 weeks), I miscarried our babies. So had to come back in a week's time for a scan, which again is quite a common thing I found out. Specialist scans In this information, the word we refers to the NHS service that provides screening. I was wondering if anyone has been is this situation and can give me a glimmer of hope. I've been incredibly lucky to have such amazing support from Sam, my mum, and close friends and family. Last reviewed July 2017. Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. If you are offered further tests, you will be given more information about them so that you can decide whether or not you want to have them. It was over. I wasn't ready to make a decision straight away, and I was told I could call them in the morning. All my plans were beginning to fall down. And attribute some blame to them. And it turned out the baby's heart wasn't forming properly, the chambers weren't forming properly. I was willing the results to be normal. Christmas came and went in a blur of emotion, it felt so wrong to be celebrating when we were in such turmoil. But here I was, minutes later, lying down, waiting. When I see a child with Down's syndrome, I have a tremendous need to explain myself and apologise a million times over. We use some essential cookies to make this website work. It was exactly like the labour I had with my first child. What would we like to do with the body? It's quite common, perhaps 1 in 10 they find these, and within a few weeks they disappear. You will then be asked to raise your top to your chest and lower your skirt or trousers to your hips. It's been a heartbreaking nightmare. And, for a few hours, I'm convinced I've made a terrible mistake. And you know, we were laughing and joking. The ultimate betrayal. Reading individual, real-life experiences can be a helpful resource, but it is never a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment from a qualified health care provider. Perhaps because we are alone in this, it has brought my partner and me very close. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. Trying to carry on as normal, working and putting on a brave face. How was that scan different from the dating scan? She brought up a picture of the heart on the screen. Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. In most cases the scan will show that your baby appears to be developing as expected but sometimes a condition is found or suspected. SO much upset and needless angst has been caused by 'soft markers' found at scans. Yeah - in, stomach, out. It was just sort of deadpan faces, very serious looks, someone else coming to check. There's nothing wrong, you know, we've had all the tests, everything's fine,' and being very upbeat about it all. Where we were living then at the time you only had a scan at 20 weeks. The next day, it was confirmed that my bloods had again dropped. Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans It was just a few little things like the kidneys were hard to find, and the stomach was hard to find, but that might be because it wasn't filled with fluid. And they actually asked my husband to come in before they spoke to me. The midwife was on the verge of tears and I felt responsible. DS had 2 soft markers: talipes (club foot) and 'echogenic locii' somewhere - heart I think. I was then told yet again bad news. And I remember, the first thing I remember when something might be wrong, was I saw, I finally, we finally saw an image of the skull on the screen, and there appeared to be a sort of black hole shape in the middle. And I'm glad I did and she's glad she didn't. I was becoming numb to the whole process. There was complete silence during the scan. No one else but my partner saw how similar he was to our son. I am a darker, harder version of myself. And my partner and I would have a completely different life from the one we'd imagined. Sam squeezed my hand and told me it was ok. I was disgusted - disgusted that such a tablet existed, let alone that I should have to take it. We don't know, but it's not looking good'. The doctor told me he was 98% sure this was a failing twin pregnancy. I had no idea if we were doing the "right" thing. And this baby sort of floated, and occasionally there was a slight movement, but it was very you could almost see that he was really poorly just from looking at the screen. Good luck has not come easily over the past few years. For once in my life, I had been organised. But you could see there was something wrong? We didn't feel we could tell anyone what was happening. I'm trying to understand because I haven't seen a 3-D scan, what it tells the parents? Rather sharply, my partner tried to explain. I remained positive, we researched lots of cases of mistaken dates, inconclusive scans, and compared them to our situation; scrutinising everything to try and believe it was all one big misunderstanding. The same unique expression he had when he saw our two year old born. Abortion has never raised any moral dilemmas for me and I am an atheist, so there are no religious issues. So I was a bit ignorant of the kind of things, you know, what the scans were really doing - maybe it was, a bit na've I think. Maybe. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". unfortunately the 20 week anomaly scan can pick up serious issues, hearing heart beats at midwife appointment doesn't let us know what's going on inside the body in detail. We had amnio and then spent a week in absoute anguish waiting for the outcome which was no trisomies. When he came back, he agreed on a termination. Scans cannot find all conditions. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here), tbh, they never give you good news at scans. So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. So I no longer trusted my instincts. Not marginalised into being a victim. Eventually, the midwife said to us very sweetly, "I think we should deliver the baby now." Except for the persistent, nagging doubts. We went in, had a scan, I can't remember the exact sequence of events because the baby was still in the wrong position. So and you could see the exomphalus, this little pouch, which was obviously just the intestines where they are. Then, three days later, I would go to the labour ward - the ward I had been expecting to visit in two and a half months. My wife turned the screen away from her. Within two days I was waiting in my local EPU unit for further tests. Back on the EPU unit, a doctor organised for me to be admitted into the ward, to take the medical management under supervision as the sac was now to big for me to safely miscarry on my own at home. So we gave up and said we'd arrange the funeral ourselves. No, you couldn't see there was anything wrong. So he went out for a walk. I did. I feel empty and incomplete. Can you describe the difference between the scan at this later stage in a pregnancy? You know there's always that bit on the bottom of the thing, 'These are diagnostics, do not bring other children,' - blah, blah, blah.. it's not, you know, it's not a family outing kind of thing, but it feels like it. 20 week scans look for 11 different anomalies as a rule, however, indicators (markers) are not terribly reliable and in all the literature I found, the targets set for stonographers look like they only pick up around 50% or less of these variants. Our nightmare began when I went for my 20-week scan. The chances that anything bad will be discovered are v v small. And for that whole time, my partner and I were both crying uncontrollably. Next most likely is that baby doesn't co-operate and they can't see some parts of anatomy and call you back 2 weeks later just because they couldn't see (i had this but because twin pregnancy I was due to be scanned 2 weeks later anyway). We've got the same battle scars. That was the first time I had heard him cry. Seated in the antenatal clinic with lots of expectant mothers with baby bumps. Several parents said they would have preferred being told something, even it was vague. BabyCenter. And in this instance the scan was very evident that there was something very seriously wrong. I sat and waited to be called for my scan. Very occasionally this second scan cannot be completed, for example because: In this case you will not be offered another screening scan but you will offered an all over physical examination for your baby after birth. Hugely upset that to think that the baby was so poorly. Or, at the very least, heart problems. Find more information and details of support groups on NHS.UK. Surely he couldn't have missed anything else that is so serious x. (See. Try to relax and take it easy. He suggested he perform an amniocentesis immediately, to rule out any chromosomal problems. But I still didn't want to be the one who stopped this baby's chance to live. Severe chromosomal conditions such as Edwards' syndrome are now often picked up in the first trimester antenatal screening but itwill usually be more obviousat the 18- 20 week scan, though usually a firm diagnosis will not be made until one or two specialists have weighed up all available evidence about the baby - which usually means that another expert needs to scan the baby again, or until the woman has had an amniocentesis. Tissue paper will be tucked around your clothing to protect it from the ultrasound gel, which will then be put on your tummy. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. Public Health England (PHE) created this information on behalf of the NHS. And I couldn't escape the feeling that I was being selfish. 1. We spent the next few weeks in a happy bubble. We were bound to each other because of the blood that was on both our hands. x. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. I just feel very unlucky. An hour passed and I started to panic. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. When I think about how long it took them to deliberate ultimately, maybe not, but it just felt like a bit of a fast food situation, didn't it? With my oldest it turns out she has a minor thing that affects 1 in 1000 of the population and wont harm her at all it's just "there" and with my second the issue turned out to be nothing. It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan. I went away and came back, and she couldn't get a good picture. You may like someone to come with you to the scan appointment. But I was struggling mentally with the anguish, grief and endless hospital visits. Where we have identified any third party copyright information you will need to obtain permission from the copyright holders concerned. And also what the prognosis would mean for our two year old: now a very happy child, he would have a completely different childhood with such an ill sibling. We talked about the different sorts of pain relief I could have and I opted for a morphine drip, which I could control. Dont worry we wont send you spam or share your email address with anyone. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). I was told this was common as my body and hormones still thought I was pregnant. Most scans show that babies seem to be developing as expected, and none of the 11 conditions are found. It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan . I tried to keep positive. For many other women, the 18-20 week scan was the point at which they discovered the baby had serious problems. I let out an animal scream and [wife] kind of leapt onto me on the bed. We went, I went in to the scanning room and they're quite bland facially anyway, whether everything's fine or not they just look at the screen to start off with and do measurements but I very quickly realised that the woman's demeanour wasn't, even for a bland face, was concerning. I felt more informed, and I felt that that was what I needed in my head to see you know, that I've got to accept now that this, all these things are real on the screen and this was really my baby that's suffering all these things [sighs], but I was sad as well. But you know I knew we had, we had to make a decision that was right for the baby as well. I want to be happy again. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and over again. The gel makes sure there is good contact between the probe and your skin. Actually you could tell from the brain development as he scanned up through the chambers of the brain, that one quarter of the brain, one chamber was not evident. During the examination, sonographers need to keep the screen in a position that gives them a good view of your baby. This article was amended on 24 November 2015 to anonymise the writer. This publication is licensed under the terms of the Open Government Licence v3.0 except where otherwise stated. We had the same conversation, but obviously were not making any sense to her at all. I was experiencing some light bleeding for the past few days. He sounded like a wild animal in pain, deep pain. And she said that, you know, as the, if the baby did develop further there would probably be other problems with internal organs that weren't really that visible at that stage. My partner spent the weekend trying to convince me that things were OK. We'll make an appointment with the senior sonographer, the consultant at the local hospital, and she'll do your scan and she'll be able to tell you more things'. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and . So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. We had so much power, we could decide that this little thing should die. And, sometimes, I wish I had invited my whole family into the hospital room to see him. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. I couldn't have the added responsibility for changing his mind. A company limited by guarantee registered in England and Wales company number 3266897. Sam followed and I broke down. But he was wrong. We had to discuss what we wanted to do with the little body after delivery. In fact, interestingly enough, going sort of. I think what everyone is saying is that most likely outcome is that there are no problems at all. By 7pm, I still hadn't delivered the baby. The week that followed was an agonising wait. We left the hospital a couple of hours later. Most scans are carried out by specially trained staff called sonographers. Slightly marked from our peers. My son's congenital heart defect was detected at the 20 week scan and he had 2 other markers, no . I want to stop having such horrible thoughts. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. And the next day we went back to the hospital and we had another scan with a specialist, and he confirmed it was a condition called holoprosencephaly, which I'd never heard of any of these words before, they were just such long words. Likely to have serious medical problems all his life. Never lacking a sense of the dramatic, it felt as if we shared the responsibility for the terrible, dirty act that we had committed. I felt crushed, I wanted him to at least acknowledge what had been found already. You do not have to have the scan. It felt so wrong. And you could see, where you should have a picture of 4 chambers, you could really see 2. I was young, I didn't need one. . So I suppose from that aspect, mind you having not been told that or sitting there, I wouldn't have thought necessarily that was odd. Most hospitals do not allow children to attend scans as childcare is not usually available. I know I could have delivered him in a quarter of the time, but I couldn't bear the thought of him leaving me. A few people recalled how frightened and alarmed they became when they sensed that the atmosphere in the scanning room changed in an instant from 'jokey' to serious when the baby's problems were detected. I came back probably about 17 weeks pregnant and had the anomaly scan at 20 weeks and like most people expected everything to be fine and to come away with a lovely picture but unfortunately that isn't what happened. We would terminate the pregnancy. She wanted to have a look at the skull, which was the main thing, but she couldn't see it from where the baby was. Spina bifida can usually be seen clearly on a scan and of those babies who have this condition, around 9 out of 10 (90%) will be detected. Instead, I had to raise a glass of water to my mouth, take a swig and swallow the tablet. Only this time, no cry came. Specialist scans had a powerful effect on some parents because they could see the baby more clearly and in some cases people recognised which parts of the baby's body were not working properly. I broke down and started hitting my disgusting body that had done this. Unfortunately I was not met with a compassionate sonographer. I was booked back in to discuss management options, if nothing had happened. Then I picked myself up. The blood test confirmed it was twins. He bluntly told me, he wasn't interested in whatever was seen before, he was only going to go by what he saw that day. News stories, speeches, letters and notices, Reports, analysis and official statistics, Data, Freedom of Information releases and corporate reports. 'Soft markers'. But it was very evident. We thought it would all be over very quickly but, in fact, it was another 11 hours before the baby was delivered. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. But with time although we will never forget, I know we will be ok again. Have I misunderstood what's going on?' It was probably all right but hadn't had any fluid in it at the moment. Again the legs were quite twisted, they said that the baby's sternum was very short - things weren't in proportion you know - the head was quite large, the neck was very thick, there wasn't really like a neck as such it was just things were kind of - there were lots of things that obviously the consultant could see that we weren't aware of. And shortly after that, that scan we'd finished and the consultant leant back and said, 'I'm afraid we have some problems here'. And the local hospital wanted to send us off to the regional hospital to actually confirm that, and were not really prepared to say at that time that there was something very seriously wrong. I had no issues at my 20wk scan with DD - and neither did any of my antenatal group (9 mums). My partner was away working and was waiting to hear whether he was having a son or daughter. It felt as if we'd gone underground, that we were part of the criminal fraternity. And it's, I can't remember exactly what it was now, it's about where the brain is supposed to form. Having the scan does not hurt but the sonographer may need to apply slight pressure to get the best views of your baby. They sort of drew some diagrams, and they said, 'But we need to refer you to a specialist to confirm the diagnosis'. Like many things, the theory is very different from the reality. We walked all the way home. But it's bloody hard being miserable the whole time. Nights were impossible. I mean the lady who was scanning was very quiet for a long time. So he was about two weeks smaller than what he should have been. I managed to tell my mum, who said she would come with us to the hospital. Desperately trying to hold onto the glimmer of hope we'd been given. But it is a soft marker for Edwards' syndrome. . 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. The scan can provide information that may mean you have to make further, important decisions. The anomaly scan, also called the 20 week scan or mid-pregnancy scan, is used to detect pregnancy irregularities significant in diagnosis of any of the following conditions: In most instances no serious issue will be found during the scan and many parents-to be will come away knowing that all is progressing nicely and, perhaps, having found out . My mum arrived early to look after our son, and my partner and I got a cab to the hospital. I know it sounds odd that you want to hear that it's wrong, but you, you know it's wrong, and you, you want to be reassured either that it's okay or is there something seriously wrong. And it was just a bit of a shock because it's not really what you want to hear - you don't really expect that. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). And I can just remember flashing a look at you as if to say, 'Have I made a mistake here somewhere? As soon as we arrived, we were shown to this little room. So obviously quite relaxed. And with each one we had to have the same conversations. It would have been nice to see someone straight away because I was in such shock. She describes having to make a momentous decision very quickly, and the ferment of relief, guilt and grief that followed, Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. We've joined the grown-ups and we both feel very different. But everything seemed fine and we'd been sitting waiting to see the consultant, and I'd had an examination on the bed. And at the end of the day however much we talked about it - that it was going to be the two of us to make the decision and me to actually you know, go through it and decide that that was what was going to happen for him - and I just, I didn't want to do it. Living in this world must be unbearable for them. I didn't want to be convincing him to agree with me. However, at the time neither of us could articulate that. It's part of our family. 'I was having nightmares and panic attacks. At the time the same thing had, exactly the same thing had happened to my friend a month before, and her scan was absolutely fine. And I know I can't hurry up the process of grieving. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. The termination would be averting a tragedy. I want to be nice again. For five months my body had known there was something wrong, yet I had felt fantastic. After she had taken all the measurements, the sonographer told us that she was concerned with the length of the baby's limbs in relation to the head. Tears started to roll down my face. We scattered his ashes over a bunch of snowdrops. I was told that while bad news at the 12 w scan is often of the life or death kind, bad news at the 20 week scan is often of the 'needs an operation in childhood' or 'needs to wear a brace for a year' kind. Eventually, the doctor finished the scan and said that some of the baby's measurements were very small. I returned to be told they wanted to scan me again, another internal to see exactly what was happening. But at the 20 week scan, which was on a Wednesday, we saw the nurse at the local hospital, the sonographer, and she did a scan and she found that the femur length was quite short in the, in the fetus. I would be put to sleep, and when I woke up I wouldn't be pregnant any more. It would be a personal tragedy for my partner and me, but that is all. The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests. And so we had to go out a couple of times, [wife] had to walk around, and she had a drink of water, which is supposed to sort of change things inside, or help the baby turn around or something because the sonographer couldn't get the measurements she wanted. . Everywhere you look, there are happy, fat, smug pregnant women. The first result, which tells you if the baby has Down's syndrome, is ready in three days, but the other chromosomal problems cannot be eliminated for up to three weeks. Could you tell? We saw the consultant, who was reassuring, saying that he would rescan me and was sure everything would be fine. I thought surely everything is ok, as they couldn't detect twins the week before. We were told to go to the hospital immediately. No one else felt him kick. Entering the labour ward, I waited for someone to say, "Go home, you are 16 weeks too early." It was far too much power; neither of us wanted it. No, we really didn't, with hindsight we probably should have, but not at all, it never occurred to us to be worried about it. There was a very marked lack of amniotic fluid which made it difficult, not even for the scanners to see, that made the picture of the scan look very, very different. But they didn't. The same anxious wait for a little, pathetic cry. After the triple test you stop thinking, you stop thinking that anything can go wrong. Still, the consultant thought things would be OK. Let a mum know you're thinking of them send one of our personalised Mother's Day cards today, Home It seemed inconceivable that we would not be having a baby in May. And then I can't remember an awful lot more about that scan apart from that feeling of searching of how to react in an unknown situation - your brain's kind of trying to work out what to say, what to do, but I had no idea what to say or what to do and I think my first thought was, does that mean our first daughter's okay? My heart goes out to you OP. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". As you felt that, you know, it was probably going to show lots of problems and it just wasn't what we wanted, but at the same time we needed to sort of see it and, we needed to prove it I suppose. chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet. I think I don't everything just seems a real blur because it was, it was such a strange experience. These were said to be soft markers fo a range of trisomies, 2 of which were incompatible with life. But other than that everything was fine. Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. And it all seemed so near at hand, you know, 31, 30 weeks, you feel like you're nearly, you're on the home stretch. I'd had the scan in the scanning room, I can't remember what they call it now, it's silly, it's gone from my head.