Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. Share. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. So what counts as verifiable evidence? Peter Biello: Ok. So now what's going on. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. Is this kind of a typical story. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. There's no attraction. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. We're not in the woods. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. Women control our lives. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. Does not test random Scouts. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. Thanks for a great thanks. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Something along those lines. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. "Of those three to five reports,. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. Peter Biello: Wow. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. Caller: It had to be a mountain lion convinced I was about 30. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. Here it is. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Peter Biello: Oh okay. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. I'll send it to you. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera.
Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. You know interactions are pretty unusual. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. We had six copies printed out each. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. New Hampshire Public Radio | Like why would you want one wildlife. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". Caller: Oh yeah. A lot of times. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. Rick your thoughts. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. You need a permit to have that. He said matter of fact I do. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? Caller: It had just left that field and was out. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. They were able to do all that by genetics. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? Mountain lions live in the state. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And you know all that. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. I think that you probably are. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. On a dirt road. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. Love hearing these stories. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. It's bigger but bigger and better world. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. John you're on the air. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Over a period of a year and a half, this Mountain Lion left DNA evidence in at least four states. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Mountain Lions in NH. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. Yes. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. Thanks for taking my call. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. They kill big animals. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. From: Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07 44-N Links. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Peter Biello: Well yeah. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. Pelosi story here we go. The 17-year-old Kiger mustang mare was born in Bend, Oregon, said Hodskins, who got her . Tim Yeah. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. It's listed as population of least concern. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. I'm Peter Biello. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. What's going on. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. So what a neat experience. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. Tell us your story. Enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, and then try again. There are corollaries in other states. Good morning guys. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. And it was unmistakable. Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. I mean they're a survivor. Why are there so many false positives? I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. They are the same thing. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. Just. for some excitement. That's too big for Bobcat. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. I just want to tell you a story that I read. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. John thanks. Okay. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . Caller: Yeah. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. Select image for larger view. So you want identifiable backgrounds. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. They absolutely do. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. Thank you. Right. And it's not really strong. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. So what those ranges.